TransphotoUrban Electric Transit

Comments to the photos taken by jiachen

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jiachen · Shànghai · 09.04.2021 08:16 MSK
Photos: 10
Quote (Gamerdgl, 09.04.2021):
> wrong way

I do understand it is the wrong way, but the distinctive poles are seen on that side of the road. Within Sinhung-up electricity is carried on wood poles, it is very likely that the 2 poles are trolleybus poles with their different concrete construction. It can't 100% confirm it, but makes it significantly more likely to be a trolleybus.

I found no videos or photos from state media about Jonchon. Of course, the former system in Kumgol did not really have a visible loop at the train station either. So it could exist and there is probably secrecy around the plant because of its military manufacture.

I tried to draw the line at Sudong :https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1...sharing
unfortunately, the definite section is only 800 meters long and given the date (2011) other parts may already be partially dismantled. Logically, it should run to the coal mine but there are only few poles on the side of the road there...
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Gamerdgl · San Jose · 08.04.2021 21:07 MSK
No photos
Quote (jiachen, 07.04.2021):
> video

excellent find! unfortunately; it is pointing the wrong way, as the poles stretch from the eastern side of the roadway, otherwise we might have seen the southern terminus.

Also, I'm still open to the possibility that there is no system in Jonchon, the satellite images raise more questions than they answer (maybe similar information to kowon mine, with 1 probably terminus only)
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jiachen · Shànghai · 08.04.2021 10:32 MSK
Photos: 10
There is a video of Sinhung here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgCboUTuAw8
At past 5 minutes, you see distinctive trolleybus poles at the south loop. Trucks are carrying passengers. While the video doesn't show the overhead, it is obviously not the electricity poles earlier in the video and must be a trolleybus pole.
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jiachen · Shànghai · 08.04.2021 06:51 MSK
Photos: 10
Sinhung looks like the operations were infrequent up to trolleybuses being removed. Between 2013 and 2017, a trolleybus drives into the depot but never moves again, until all 3 are removed after 2017 and before 2020. The two other trolleybuses have not moved at least before October 2013. It is very likely that services were irregular because wheat is seen drying on the south loop at least since 2008.

I think it is possible that the line in Hakmu district runs further; a vehicle is seen within the gated area twice and I see no poles in the square.
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Gamerdgl · San Jose · 06.04.2021 02:38 MSK
No photos
Quote (jiachen, 05.04.2021):
> doesn't seem possible for trolleys to turn at either end of the village

I guess my point is that it's too constrained. It's easy to draw a route up the mountain

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/41.06033...4m1!3e2
(A bus travelling the central road of the mining village where the miners' houses are) but neither the distances nor the poles, nor available turnarounds seem satisfactory in my opinion. The road between Kapsan-up and the mining village has similar looking poles, for example.

I don't think it's possible to prove without better satellite imagery, or some image. Both of which are difficult to obtain.
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jiachen · Shànghai · 06.04.2021 01:19 MSK
Photos: 10
Quote (Gamerdgl, 06.04.2021):
> Kapsan

The website is very specific here, it says (http://www.cybernk.net/infoText/InfoHuma...irect=1) that it is 10 ri long (about 3.9 kilometres ?) Yet it doesn't seem possible for trolleys to turn at either end of the village. At the base of the hill to the east, there are two poles and a small clearing.
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Gamerdgl · San Jose · 06.04.2021 00:14 MSK
No photos
Fascinating stuff regarding sudong. I'm not sure where to find other satellite images that is early enough.

Quote (jiachen, 05.04.2021):
> trolley bus to turn

I think I found the storage for the trolleybuses, finally.
40.20417626655192, 127.58636026753932 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2042119,...3m1!1e3

Admittedly, it doesn't show a ton of movement, and the last time any trolleybuses are seen at all is 2017. Though, like other systems across the country, it isn't unheard of to take a line out of service for some time.

The Kapsan one is annoying because the distance and satellite seem to say the line goes/went from the T to the top of the hill, but nothing suggests it.
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jiachen · Shànghai · 05.04.2021 11:27 MSK
Photos: 10
Quote (Gamerdgl, 03.04.2021):
> Sinhung

This network is almost certainly out of service, unfortunately. The yellow on both loops are wheat crops being dried (on both recent satellite images), completely blocking any way possible for the trolley bus to turn.

In Jonchon, hopefully it is just parked away.

I believe that the T junction in Kapsan (Tongjom) is the terminus but I am not certain. There are poles seen in both directions to the north and east.

In Sudong, the first 2 satellite images that are basically black and white clearly show parallel poles along the small river at 126.922 39.370 Degrees. Later, they completely disappeared and there is a probable loop before the little bridge over it. Unfortunately, the best image is also partially blocked by clouds, making it tell where the other loop is (maybe at the railway station.)
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jiachen · Shànghai · 04.04.2021 03:59 MSK
Photos: 10
Now it makes sense; if both of these are the 'general machine plants' I suppose the southerners would simply be not allowed to survey the district unlike the mines.

Regarding other counties with known systems but no visible vehicles, I have a theory, that Kapsan and Onsong closed in 1994 not opened, unlike what Wikipedia says, especially as the Kapsan mine allegedly ran out in the 90 s.
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Gamerdgl · San Jose · 04.04.2021 03:36 MSK
No photos
Quote (jiachen, 03.04.2021):
> where it ends

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1...sharing

Something like that seems to be the most reasonable option, since there are no poles visible on any nearby roads.
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jiachen · Shànghai · 04.04.2021 03:09 MSK
Photos: 10
Quote (Gamerdgl, 04.04.2021):
> 노동자구

This is very odd. On many Wikipedia articles, it has both spellings in lists of administrative divisions.
.

The loop at Jonchon is located in Hakmu worker's district. But I'm not sure where it ends? About 1.3 kilometres away is the February 8 general machine plant. The same complex also manufactures transport erector launchers (for missiles).
In Sinhung, it leads to the local machine factory and the local revolutionary history museum. The tank factory is also in that county somewhere else
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Gamerdgl · San Jose · 03.04.2021 20:38 MSK
No photos
Quote (Yury LRTA, 03.04.2021):
> Where do you think this photo was taken exactly?

Well.. for the first one http://www.cybernk.net/common/ImgPopup2....irect=1

Somewhere around 40.61364210107241, 126.46466202295255 looking north along the main road. In 2004 on google earth, the area to the right was a green patch, and the buildings match the one just after the green area, and the one 1 before it.

For the second one, I think 40.61232139163088, 126.46639659109397
Basically, the 3 trees are visible in 2004 google earth, the picture is looking southeast, just missing the railroad station.

These spots match with the hills in the back, and with the website itself. Again, the images are from Junchon-up (전천읍), and not the worker's district (probably something rodongjagu) In that website, the R sound is often badly transcribed as a neutral or N sound (like in pyongyang it's always written as Yeonmotdong or Yeonseong instead of Ryonmotdong and Ryonsong, Rakrang is written as Nakrang). So, it is actually written as nodongjagu 노동자구. It might be that the south koreans had trouble understanding perfectly, I don't know exactly why though.
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Yury LRTA · 03.04.2021 17:54 MSK
Photos: 12621 · Moderator of third party photos / Photo Screener / General editor / News editor / Interface Translation (EN)
Цитата (Gamerdgl, 03.04.2021):
> Another one 40.638871807280196, 126.44204937502681
>
> Trolleybus loop at that spot, 4/2019 google earth shows a bus, and 2014 earth imagery shows the poles clearly enough..

Clearly a suspect. The line is only 1,3 km. long but goes to some kind of mausoleum or dedicated grounds. So it probably exists just for the show. A square right before the entry to the grounds suggests a second loop.

Where do you think this photo was taken exactly?
http://www.cybernk.net/common/ImgPopup2....irect=1
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Yury LRTA · 03.04.2021 15:59 MSK
Photos: 12621 · Moderator of third party photos / Photo Screener / General editor / News editor / Interface Translation (EN)
Цитата (Gamerdgl, 03.04.2021):
> I think I found a new system, in Sinhung
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1...sharing
>
> There are no photos of it on cybernet, presumably because those are only taken in Sinhung-up (the town), and not the worker's district, which is where this seems to pass through. I looked for photos, but came up short. Hopefully this one is convincing enough just with the aerial imagery, the same way some previous systems were found. I think it's basically impossible to write it off. Though, no pictures, seemingly no trolleybuses...
>
> Do you guys agree?

Excellent find, many thanks. Yes, there are consistent poles and two loops clearly visible. The line is most likely bidirectional single overhead set like Sangwŏn and Onsong. What impresses me the most, however, that there is a clear passing point located right in the middle of the line at the following location (better visible in Google Earth images from the past):
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sinhun....413597
Moreover, the passing point was not there before, and was installed between 2013-2017. This could be a sign of some kind of operation for which capacity issues had to be resolved. Also of note, that the trolleybus line passes through a checkpoint upon entering the North-Eastern development, which seems to be closed off from the rest of the world.
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jiachen · Shànghai · 03.04.2021 10:29 MSK
Photos: 10
Maybe worker's districts are prioritised to receivepublic transport but during the arduous march, most of them sold the vehicles / wiring for scrap.
But here, the network seems to go to the main street but there is no poles on it : http://www.cybernk.net/common/ImgPopup2....irect=1
Maybe it was built after 1991 when it was around the time taken
Maybe it was even an unfinished project; this pole looks like it could have been part of it : http://www.cybernk.net/common/ImgPopup2....irect=1 you can see another pole behindit too, without anything on it
It's very odd that it has a covered depot. The type of pole appears universal however and could just be electricity mount
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Gamerdgl · San Jose · 03.04.2021 09:59 MSK
No photos
Another one 40.638871807280196, 126.44204937502681

Trolleybus loop at that spot, 4/2019 google earth shows a bus, and 2014 earth imagery shows the poles clearly enough..

I suspect there may be something to do with these workers' districts.

Also, for Sinhung, the clearest imagery is 2/2020. It is what allowed me to be confident about the eastern terminus, the poles are visible in the loop and not any further.
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jiachen · Shànghai · 03.04.2021 09:20 MSK
Photos: 10
Quote (Gamerdgl, 03.04.2021):
> agree

Seems likely. I could not find any photos either but looks about as likely as Tokchon.
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Gamerdgl · San Jose · 03.04.2021 07:41 MSK
No photos
I think I found a new system, in Sinhung

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1...sharing

There are no photos of it on cybernet, presumably because those are only taken in Sinhung-up (the town), and not the worker's district, which is where this seems to pass through. I looked for photos, but came up short. Hopefully this one is convincing enough just with the aerial imagery, the same way some previous systems were found. I think it's basically impossible to write it off. Though, no pictures, seemingly no trolleybuses...

Do you guys agree?
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jiachen · Shànghai · 26.03.2021 12:46 MSK
Photos: 10
I believe the only transport in Hyesan city (maybe somewhere in coal mine there is something...) are buses: http://cybernk.net/common/ImgPopup2.aspx...irect=1
41.428470669963765, 128.23754424407215 is the only depot that I see in Hyesan and is only buses.
Also, looking at Kimchaek on satellite, it shows that in 2009, 6 trolleybu; 2011, 5 trolleybus; 2012, 2 trolleybus until 2017/8 then removed, suspended from 2012 - 2018/9 then two vehicles appear later 2019.
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Gamerdgl · San Jose · 26.03.2021 06:57 MSK
No photos
Quote (Yury LRTA, 06.12.2020):
> It would be helpful to see thoughts and input on this discovery by other users.
>

I can't believe I missed this thread. Last year, I traced the Sinuiju trolleybus by finding the exact locations of many pictures and working the route out piece by piece, I added the old line that closed to it as well, including the old trolleybus loop (demolished in 2013)

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1...sharing

the routing around the main station is not 100 percent certain, but that city is mostly complete.

Anyways, the real reason I came was to give my opinion on several things. I think tokchon looks like this

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1...sharing

I think this renders the Tokchon trolleybus to be pretty credible, one of the main things that separates a trolleybus and a regular bus is that the bus depot must be close to where the routes run (did we all just happen to miss that little spot?!)

Also, I have compiled enough videos and photos to make me confident that there is no trolleybus in Kaechon, Sunchon, Hoeryong, Rajin, Kaesong... (Hyesan is not certain but it seems very unlikely, if you also consider the satellite evidence)
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